Ammonia level in tank?

Hello. I have a 20 gallon tank I am cycling with a small school of barbs (3). I just ended the 1st week, and my ammonia levels are still sky high. At fist I was doing 25% water changes every 2 days or so (and using ammo lock), but yesterday I did a 75% change, then today I have preformed 3, 25% WC. And still, ammonia levels have not dropped.





I have been online reading about ammo lock, and get conflicting opinions about it (of course, I probably will here too =]. Just wondering if it messes with the process of the bio filter breaking down the ammonia? And, am I going over board with the water changes (ammonia levels read at 8ppm on the liquid API freshwater master test kit, and I cannot get the levels to come down with all the water changes.). PH is 6.6.





The fish seem alright.They are active and really want me to feed them (they only are fed every other day, due to the high ammonia levels. Should I offer more or less feeding times?). I think 1 barb might be stressed though. He seems a little too active in the tank, and making a repeated (number) 8 shape while swimming. And he seems to be hanging out more in the bubbles. Not sure if it is the ammonia bothering him (I thought ammo lock detoxified the water?) or if he just likes the bubbles. (They all play in them regularly). No flickering, sometimes I notice that they want to swim by the filter and rub against the tube the water is sucked up in. The other 2 barbs are down in the vegetation (artificial) doing their thing.





Any advice?





I am familiar with the process of cycling a tank...just unsure of the constant 8ppm reading I am getting with constant water changes. I have never had such a high reading for so long. I am also using stress zyme (and stress coat), but unsure how to use stress zyme with so many water changes.Ammonia level in tank?
If your test kit is old, or you are unsure if you are testing correctly, do a sample test just using the water out of your tap. A note about this: if your local water municipality uses chloramine instead of chlorine, a small amount of ammonia may be present in your tap water. This is because chloramine is chlorine/ammonia mix that doesn't evaporate like chlorine does.





If your test is working properly then it's time to ramp up the water changes. Large waterchanges are fine (although it's a pain in the butt), and won't harm your fish, nor remove bacteria since they prefer to live in the filter. Do a decent sized one and test your tank again shortly after to see what kind of readings you get. Yes a small number of fish can raise ammonia pretty quick...freshwater fish are always having to pump water out of their system (due to osmosis), and they release waste ammonia while doing so. Solid waste/ uneaten food also releases ammonia...so it's fine to not feed them daily.





Ammo-lock shouldn't, in theory, prevent your tank from cycling. It's just changing the ammonia structure into a slightly less toxic form that does exist in nature. It will not change your test results (because Ammonia testing kits register both kinds). What is less clear is how long a ';dose'; of ammo-lock works.





I'd ditch the stress coat stuff if that's the stuff with aloe in it. Aloe might be fine for their scales/slime coat, but what about their gills?





Have any friends with a (healthy) cycled tank that can give you some of their filter media or part of their filters sponge? That's the best way to jump start a cycle because it will be full of the bacteria you need.





Edit:


More than most people need to know but:


Fish store and release ';ammonia'; as NH4+. When NH4+ reacts with water it can lose it's extra H+, converting it to the more toxic NH3. In tank with low pH this conversion occurs less, and in tanks with high pH this conversion occurs more. In other words, ';ammonia'; is more toxic in tanks with high pH. This is why I question how long ';ammo-locking'; products actually work, why they shouldn't effect your bacterial colony, and why almost no one bothers making NH3 only tests!Ammonia level in tank?
- Drop the stress zyme in the filter.


- Do 90% water changes once/twice a day (depending on the need) till the ammonia lowers. Make no mistake this is not a bad thing in this situation. You have no cycle. The fastest way to reduce ammonia is to do a large water change. It directly removes ammonia and dilutes any left over ammonia. So it's a sure winner over products like Ammo Lock (which I have never used). Actually try to take some water in a separate container with some conditioner [not tank water]. Take your fish and place them in this container. Drain ALL the water in the tank till there's just a little left over the gravel (very thin layer). Then refill.


- Check your filter. Once, a pet shop insisted they set up a filter for me. They forgot to remove the bacteria growing film from it's plastic. T.T


- Try to bring over bacteria from a pet shop. You want to try to get an effect similar to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E21dIdJL鈥?/a> basically bring over bacteria from other established tanks. These bacteria are way better than most commercial bacteria in bottles. Half the time, bottled commercial bacteria are already dead. Who knows how long they've been sitting on that shelf....





Lan, just wanted your opinion on something. He's using commercial bacteria... The commercial bacteria is bottled in a non-toxic form of ammonia, so if he uses them, wouldn't the ammonia readings will be higher than if he hadn't used them?? I think that's why his readings are at 8 ppm, because you are right... fish begin to die at 6 ppm onwards. I'm just curious xD
although i use another ammonia product, im almost positive ammo lock works the same way.... this may get a tad confusing, and im sorry in advance, but ill try to make it simple....





when you test your water for ammonia, nearly ALL tests measure whats called TAN or ';total ammonia nitrogen';. This is a measurement of BOTH harmful, toxic ammonia as well as the harmless ammonia that is being used to keep the bio filter going. when using an ammonia remover/detoxifier, it will remove the toxic ';free ammonia';, leaving behind the harmless ammonia which your bio filter is useing.





When using one of these products, if you dont have a test that measures ONLY the toxic ';free ammonia';, you will get a false positive. its telling you that yes, there is ammonia present, but it doesnt tell you how much bad stuff is in there... so when using these products, your API ammonia test becomes useless. In order to get an accurate reading, you will need a test that ONLY measures the bad stuff. The link below is to an ammonia monitor. I use it and it will continuously monitor the ammount of ';free ammonia'; for up to one year. I bought mine at petsmart and have seen them at petco. theyre only about 5 to 7 bucks. if you read ANY ammonia on your ammonia monitor, then you will need to do a water change... if you use ammo lock, there really is no way to get an accurate reading of your ammonia levles without the ammonia monitor.





good luck, hope this wasnt too confusing, i know it can be very confusing, so... if you have any questions at all, feel free to email me %26amp; i can try my best to answer any questions you may have about it... i did a ton of research on it a while ago when i started using ammonia removers. hope i helped :)








EDIT:


***dont listen to this quote from someone above me, it is inaccurate.


';Ammo-lock will not change your test results (because Ammonia testing kits register both kinds)';.


***Thats exactly the problem. its measureing BOTH kinds... you need a test that only measures the bad stuff, because who cares if the harmless stuff is present in the water, acutally its a good thing, it means the harmless ammonia in the water is being used to start the bio filter. the test does not know that the bad ammonia has been detoxified. all the test is pretty much saying is that: yes, there is ammonia in your water. if you decide to get the ammonia monitor i reccomended, you wont have to test your ammonia any more, just look at the monitor, but you WILL need to still test nitrites and nitrates daily. change your water ONLY when the ammonia monitor slightly changes color or when you read ANY nitrites or your nitrates are above 20... then do a large water change. when you read ammonia-0 (on the monitor). nitrites-0. and nitrates- more than 0 and less than 20... when you get those reading for 7 days straight, your tank is fully cycled
Theres a lot of good info here, thats for sure. I'm certainly no expert, but what I do is about every week to 10 days I vacuum the gravel and do a partial water change of about 20%. Thats about how much water I lose when I do the vacuuming so it works out good. I add water back to the top and add appropriate chemicals consistent to what the directions tell me for the amount of water I added. (water conditioner, bacteria booster, ammonia treatment, salt). I've had my tank (80 gal) for a good while now and honestly the only thing I monitor anymore is ammonia and nitrites. If the ammonia registers, I add ammonia treatment. Nitrites, ya change water. It's also good to buy some PH up and PH down. But after monitoring mine for a long time, frankly I never have to adjust the PH. Maybe it's just my water from my city. As far as feeding, I do a good feed in the morning(flake and brine shrimp and the occasional krill for the puffers) and in the evening I drop in a capsule of blood worms and a SMALL amount of flake. The water stays clear this way for me. Everyones tank seems to be different, but I tell you this because this is what works for me. Good luck and enjoy.





ps- one more thing I noticed when I read back through was about your water changes. You should NOT do a water change that close between another water change. Every 2 days is very bad for your fish. If your doing this just for high ammonia, go buy ammonia treatment. Get the bacteria booster and you should be good
I read about 1 paragraph of that novel and rolled my eyes. I don't need to read the re.st as you're already not cycling properly. Ammo Lock defeats the purpose and hinders cycling as its bacteria dependent and Ammo Lock is a chemical remover.





The old school cycling you're doing takes about 3 weeks or so up to 5 weeks to work so you're not going to see anything yet but spikes.





You're just torturing fish.





If you require an extrapolation or explanation I accept messages.
You have a problem with your test kit.





I say this for 2 reasons, first 8ppm will kill any fish, pretty much instantly. It can even kill the ammonia eating bacteria if it's that high. And second, if you do a 75% water change, then 75% of the ammonia is poured down the drain, it's gone, so the reading in the tank must drop.





So double check your ammonia level, as you say the fish are acting fine, so they probably are. 3 small barbs in a 20gal will not produce much ammonia, and if you have been changing some water I would expect the true reading to be under 0.5





Ian